Forza Motorsport 5

La semana del Black Friday en PcComponentes y Amazon
I just have to write this down, because everything is falling apart. And I am not happy because of it. And I think it is wrong. And it has been wrong for almost a decade.

What am I talking about?

When first Forza on Xbox was released in 2005 it was directly competing GT4 released in 2004. At that point of time, HID force feedback wheels were already a very serious market product that was present in homes of hundreds of thousands of players worldwide, mainly thanks to Logitech efforts and their production of Dual Force/Wingman and Driving Force family of wheels that practically changed the driving genre forever.

At the point of first Forza arrival, there were 3 extremely well-sold Logitech FFB/USB-HID wheels: second generation of USB/HID PC wheel Wingman Formula (270 degrees) that was perfectly working on PS2, three generations of Dual Force wheels USB/HID (270 degrees - models known as Dual Force, Driving Force and GT Force, also working on both PC/PS2 and also a legendary Logitech's Driving Force Pro model (USB-HID/900 degrees, PC/PS2), that will later become the best selling driving wheel of all time. I do not know the numbers for all those wheels, but I can presume that in 2005 there were hundreds of thousands them in the world.

But let's take a step back first.

What is ironic today - and not only today - is how actual HID technology and all foundations for USB force feedback wheels that 99% of the world is using today under Immersion Company's TouchSense technology license is actually made by - MICROSOFT. Yeah, you read it right. Microsoft.

Microsoft's own DirectInput technology - which Microsoft deliberately showed down the drain in favor of Xinput, which allows them monitoring and licensing of hardware - was the real pioneer of the full force feedback technology that we know today, used on legendary Microsoft Sidewinder FFB wheel back in 2000 (Immersion Corp. came out with their TouchSense technology a full year later, in 2001, and launched its first wheel full year after the Sidewinder).

And best part: DirectInput supported HID. Sidewinder is a full USB/HID wheel.

And now comes the juicy part. The Immersion Company that licenses its own proprietary force feedback technology almost to the whole world is the same Immersion Co. that Microsoft settled with about patents Immersion successfully claimed back in 2004, prior to Xbox360 release, regarding the usage of their patents in their Xbox controllers. Thanks to that settlement, X360 launched with rumble effects in their controllers day one.

In the same time, Sony - the company that is preparing the third consecutive console that will *probably* use the same USB-HID standard as whole world (except Microsoft) is using for the last 13 years, remained in dispute with Immersion without settlement, which finally ended with great damages Sony had to pay to Immersion regarding rumble patents, which was the main reason why PS3 console was launched without rumble effects in controllers and without FFB support in wheels for driving games. Why? Because the same line of patents covers both technologies, owned by Immersion. It was after very EU launch of PS3 that dispute was settled and damages payed and Sony agreed to pay Immersion fee for usage of their technologies. And it was the moment when Sixasis was finally replaced with Dual Shock 2 and when legendary update finally brought force feedback to F1 Championship Edition and very GT:HD (which was already released WITHOUT force feedback support) and USB-HID force feedback technology was again part of PlayStation console, this time PS3.

And that is the same licensing/patents we are talking about. One that Microsoft settled with Immersion 2 years before Sony. And they are still using it and they've been using it all along.

Now let us get back to history for a second.

If you remember, Gran Turismo 4 was released in 2004. It took 2 years to release GT:HD demo, and another year until release of GT5:Prologue. And then, another two years have passed until GT5 was released. In the meantime, Microsoft Games and Turn10 pumped out Forza 1 (2005), Forza 2 (2007) and Forza 3 (2009).

Now let us just imagine.

IF Microsoft allowed the usage of USB-HID protocols on their consoles and allowed all those hundreds of thousands of potential owners of FFB wheels to be able to actually use them on Xbox/Xbox360, the success of the Forza franchise would be immensely greater.

During the infamous 2007-2009 period (also known as Gran Depression™) Gran Turismo fans were going absolutely insane over the fact how their wheels can't be used on X360 while GT5 was facing one delay after another. Also, dozens of thousands of PC players were pretty uninterested in Forza just because their wheels can't work with it.

And what Microsoft do in the meantime? First, they "invent" their own version of Xinput that supports wheels and then they produce that toy called Microsoft Wireless Force Feedback wheel (I am talking about 2006 actual wheel, not that U-shaped thingie released in 2011) and they also license the same tech to Logiitech (that starts the production of Driving FX model, but they soon ditch it because they can't break even: licensing a X360 license and actual hardware parts that have to be bought from Microsoft and put inside the wheel so it can be recognized by console - infamous "Infineon Chip" - at the end cost too much to keep the wheel price popular, so they just bail out).

I had that MS wheel and played Forza 2, Project Gotham 2&3, Test Drive Unlimited and Race Pro with it. In the same time I had DFP which I used to play all PS2 driving games with. Guess what? MS wheel and MS Xinput FFB solution SUCKED BIG TIME compared to HID-USB wheels (including my DFP).

But they didn't stoop there, no.

In 2009 they've announced legendary deal with Fanatec, that will lead to Forza 3 being first X360 game that will actually support 900-degree (which we will later learn it is not actually simulated, but emulated: XID-driven force feedback essentially does not communicate with the game directly, but instead it creates FFB through pre-determined commands, practically emulating FFB effects and linarity from 270-degree commands that corresponds with degrees supported by controller. As a side-result, sensation of countersteer on FFB wheels in 900-mode is severely compromised because system can't cope with maintaining *tensioned* FFB (as you can experience on either PC/PS3 where you can *save* the grip when you loose it) because of the line of FFB "command" has already being issued to device). But then came the issues with linearity, buffers and all that jazz. Despite Fanatec managed to find some great wizardry to actually portray X360 FFB close to one at HID-mode, it was still a let-down.

But even then people were buying Fanatec PWTS and GT2 models, together with CSP pedals and continue to invest into Forza series. Even then some of the "hundreds thousands" HID-army decided to bite the bullet, they've sold their Logitechs and bought Fanatecs because they were working on all platforms and on top of that they bought X360 consoles, Forza games and probably Gold memberships.

During that same period, Logitech launches its legendary G25 model and later G27. They lauch new generation of 270-degree FFB wheel in budget range, also supported by both PC/PS3, Driving Force EX. It allso launches new generation of Force model, Driving Force GT, that will be remembered as last wheel manufactured by Logitech. All those wheels are bought by PS2/PS3 and PC players around the world - thanks to crazy Logitech's policy of worldwide distribution and merchandising that will ultimately lead to their fall and demise of their wheel program - on top of the existing older models. And among those players there were tens of thousands during the aforementioned Gran Depression™ that would jump on X360 wagon and Forza 2&3 games only if their wheel would be supported.

But no. Microsoft was smarter then anyone..

They continued their policy when Forza 4 was announced. The new, broader partnership with Fanatec was highlighted, resulting with 2 new FFB models, officially branded as Forza Motorsport wheels. CSR and CSR Elite. Thankfully for many of today's owners of CSR/CSRE, Fanatec manufactured few cheaper models of pedals then superior CSP, so some could buy their sets for more reasonable money (but it was still a hefty, few hundreds of moneys investment). Forza 4 was spectacularly demoed with CSRE wheel on E3 2011 and released in the same year, aggregating great scores of media and users and announcing big partnership with Pirelli for the tyre model. But again, released version of the game was plagued with broken linearity and buffers when using wheels. Turn10 was so arrogant that they accused Fanatec for the issue, although it was clearly their own physics/Xinput emulator modeling that was causing the issue. Yoritomo was one of the first who presented the evidence which was soon blacklisted on the official forums. But thank to all voices from wheel users, Turn10 finally released FM4 update (one and only) that provided us with Simulation physics and proper 900-degree linearity (still emulated, still plagued by connectivity issues, but it was working, thank God).

In the meantime, GT5 was released, with another great USB/HID wheel to support it, Thrustmaster T500RS. Needless to say, Fanatec was smart enough to never produce wheel that will only work with X360, so many CSR/CSRE owners also opted for those wheels because they were multiplatform - and were giving a better performance when in USB-HID mode, just to highlight that little fact.

And then came 2013 and recent news. And all I feel is complete disbelief.

Almost a full decade later I still can't fathom what is going on in heads at people at Microsoft. How can anyone with even grain of sanity in their head decide to create a simulation-driving game that will be first-party and funded with hundreds of million of dollars through its development - but in the same time decide it will not support a peripheral standard that is superior then Xinput while already embraced by hundreds of thousands (if not even millions) players of that same genre in the world?

They didn't opted to loose potential sales and buildup of userbase on only one platform (Xbox and Forza 1) or two platforms (Forza 2/3/4 and X360) - they now decided to do the same with the third consecutive platform and make angry all people who invested into extremely expensive peripherals to play their flagship racing franchise - and other driving games on their platform that were only supporting Xinput - through last 7 years. Why are they doing that? What is the math beyond such short-sighted and absolutely non-visionary decision?

I can only fathom the success Forza series would have if first game and first console were to support 270-FFB wheels of the time and if Forza 2 supported the same. I can only fathom what stellar numbers would they achieved if X360 and Forza 3 - released in the very time of Gran Depression™ - were to support USB-HID wheels. And what would it done to popularity of the franchise and platform itself. Also, success of Forza 4 would probably be much greater, same for Forza Horizon. And same for all other driving games - and as we all know X360 had a damn great number of them, from exclusive ones (PGR, TDU, RacePro) to multiplatform releases (when I am already writing this down, I have to congratulate Codemasters on their FFB engine used on X360, it was probably the best third-party FFB on X360, great job done there in all Codemasters games, especially F1 2011, Dirt 3 and GRID 2) - which would all be much more popular and played (and BOUGHT, together with damn XBOX LIVE GOLD sweet money needed to play online) if Microsoft only decided to support the standard and technology they invented and founded themselves in year 2000.

And for the final spectacle, they now have a Forza 5, on next-generation console, as first simulation game that will cherish the next-gen. And in that very moment they announce how none of the X360 peripheral will be supported and there is no evidence they will ditch Xinput in favor of DirectInput, as everybody with some sanity would do. And in the same time, their main contender is launching a game on the current-platfoorm, handing them AGAIN an empty space to grab from sea of those ready to jump in the early adoption madness. With their USB-HID and X360 wheels in the hands, awaiting to see have the white collars of Redmond finally came to their senses.

Unbelievable.

Damn, I was really inspired now when I look the wall of text. Sorry for that, Friday night. Off to play some GT5 online with my friends. Monday is only two nights away, I am really, honestly and wholeheartedly waiting for some good news about XboxOne. May support for USB-HID standard be that news.
NucelarGen escribió:
I just have to write this down, because everything is falling apart. And I am not happy because of it. And I think it is wrong. And it has been wrong for almost a decade.

What am I talking about?

When first Forza on Xbox was released in 2005 it was directly competing GT4 released in 2004. At that point of time, HID force feedback wheels were already a very serious market product that was present in homes of hundreds of thousands of players worldwide, mainly thanks to Logitech efforts and their production of Dual Force/Wingman and Driving Force family of wheels that practically changed the driving genre forever.

At the point of first Forza arrival, there were 3 extremely well-sold Logitech FFB/USB-HID wheels: second generation of USB/HID PC wheel Wingman Formula (270 degrees) that was perfectly working on PS2, three generations of Dual Force wheels USB/HID (270 degrees - models known as Dual Force, Driving Force and GT Force, also working on both PC/PS2 and also a legendary Logitech's Driving Force Pro model (USB-HID/900 degrees, PC/PS2), that will later become the best selling driving wheel of all time. I do not know the numbers for all those wheels, but I can presume that in 2005 there were hundreds of thousands them in the world.

But let's take a step back first.

What is ironic today - and not only today - is how actual HID technology and all foundations for USB force feedback wheels that 99% of the world is using today under Immersion Company's TouchSense technology license is actually made by - MICROSOFT. Yeah, you read it right. Microsoft.

Microsoft's own DirectInput technology - which Microsoft deliberately showed down the drain in favor of Xinput, which allows them monitoring and licensing of hardware - was the real pioneer of the full force feedback technology that we know today, used on legendary Microsoft Sidewinder FFB wheel back in 2000 (Immersion Corp. came out with their TouchSense technology a full year later, in 2001, and launched its first wheel full year after the Sidewinder).

And best part: DirectInput supported HID. Sidewinder is a full USB/HID wheel.

And now comes the juicy part. The Immersion Company that licenses its own proprietary force feedback technology almost to the whole world is the same Immersion Co. that Microsoft settled with about patents Immersion successfully claimed back in 2004, prior to Xbox360 release, regarding the usage of their patents in their Xbox controllers. Thanks to that settlement, X360 launched with rumble effects in their controllers day one.

In the same time, Sony - the company that is preparing the third consecutive console that will *probably* use the same USB-HID standard as whole world (except Microsoft) is using for the last 13 years, remained in dispute with Immersion without settlement, which finally ended with great damages Sony had to pay to Immersion regarding rumble patents, which was the main reason why PS3 console was launched without rumble effects in controllers and without FFB support in wheels for driving games. Why? Because the same line of patents covers both technologies, owned by Immersion. It was after very EU launch of PS3 that dispute was settled and damages payed and Sony agreed to pay Immersion fee for usage of their technologies. And it was the moment when Sixasis was finally replaced with Dual Shock 2 and when legendary update finally brought force feedback to F1 Championship Edition and very GT:HD (which was already released WITHOUT force feedback support) and USB-HID force feedback technology was again part of PlayStation console, this time PS3.

And that is the same licensing/patents we are talking about. One that Microsoft settled with Immersion 2 years before Sony. And they are still using it and they've been using it all along.

Now let us get back to history for a second.

If you remember, Gran Turismo 4 was released in 2004. It took 2 years to release GT:HD demo, and another year until release of GT5:Prologue. And then, another two years have passed until GT5 was released. In the meantime, Microsoft Games and Turn10 pumped out Forza 1 (2005), Forza 2 (2007) and Forza 3 (2009).

Now let us just imagine.

IF Microsoft allowed the usage of USB-HID protocols on their consoles and allowed all those hundreds of thousands of potential owners of FFB wheels to be able to actually use them on Xbox/Xbox360, the success of the Forza franchise would be immensely greater.

During the infamous 2007-2009 period (also known as Gran Depression™) Gran Turismo fans were going absolutely insane over the fact how their wheels can't be used on X360 while GT5 was facing one delay after another. Also, dozens of thousands of PC players were pretty uninterested in Forza just because their wheels can't work with it.

And what Microsoft do in the meantime? First, they "invent" their own version of Xinput that supports wheels and then they produce that toy called Microsoft Wireless Force Feedback wheel (I am talking about 2006 actual wheel, not that U-shaped thingie released in 2011) and they also license the same tech to Logiitech (that starts the production of Driving FX model, but they soon ditch it because they can't break even: licensing a X360 license and actual hardware parts that have to be bought from Microsoft and put inside the wheel so it can be recognized by console - infamous "Infineon Chip" - at the end cost too much to keep the wheel price popular, so they just bail out).

I had that MS wheel and played Forza 2, Project Gotham 2&3, Test Drive Unlimited and Race Pro with it. In the same time I had DFP which I used to play all PS2 driving games with. Guess what? MS wheel and MS Xinput FFB solution SUCKED BIG TIME compared to HID-USB wheels (including my DFP).

But they didn't stoop there, no.

In 2009 they've announced legendary deal with Fanatec, that will lead to Forza 3 being first X360 game that will actually support 900-degree (which we will later learn it is not actually simulated, but emulated: XID-driven force feedback essentially does not communicate with the game directly, but instead it creates FFB through pre-determined commands, practically emulating FFB effects and linarity from 270-degree commands that corresponds with degrees supported by controller. As a side-result, sensation of countersteer on FFB wheels in 900-mode is severely compromised because system can't cope with maintaining *tensioned* FFB (as you can experience on either PC/PS3 where you can *save* the grip when you loose it) because of the line of FFB "command" has already being issued to device). But then came the issues with linearity, buffers and all that jazz. Despite Fanatec managed to find some great wizardry to actually portray X360 FFB close to one at HID-mode, it was still a let-down.

But even then people were buying Fanatec PWTS and GT2 models, together with CSP pedals and continue to invest into Forza series. Even then some of the "hundreds thousands" HID-army decided to bite the bullet, they've sold their Logitechs and bought Fanatecs because they were working on all platforms and on top of that they bought X360 consoles, Forza games and probably Gold memberships.

During that same period, Logitech launches its legendary G25 model and later G27. They lauch new generation of 270-degree FFB wheel in budget range, also supported by both PC/PS3, Driving Force EX. It allso launches new generation of Force model, Driving Force GT, that will be remembered as last wheel manufactured by Logitech. All those wheels are bought by PS2/PS3 and PC players around the world - thanks to crazy Logitech's policy of worldwide distribution and merchandising that will ultimately lead to their fall and demise of their wheel program - on top of the existing older models. And among those players there were tens of thousands during the aforementioned Gran Depression™ that would jump on X360 wagon and Forza 2&3 games only if their wheel would be supported.

But no. Microsoft was smarter then anyone..

They continued their policy when Forza 4 was announced. The new, broader partnership with Fanatec was highlighted, resulting with 2 new FFB models, officially branded as Forza Motorsport wheels. CSR and CSR Elite. Thankfully for many of today's owners of CSR/CSRE, Fanatec manufactured few cheaper models of pedals then superior CSP, so some could buy their sets for more reasonable money (but it was still a hefty, few hundreds of moneys investment). Forza 4 was spectacularly demoed with CSRE wheel on E3 2011 and released in the same year, aggregating great scores of media and users and announcing big partnership with Pirelli for the tyre model. But again, released version of the game was plagued with broken linearity and buffers when using wheels. Turn10 was so arrogant that they accused Fanatec for the issue, although it was clearly their own physics/Xinput emulator modeling that was causing the issue. Yoritomo was one of the first who presented the evidence which was soon blacklisted on the official forums. But thank to all voices from wheel users, Turn10 finally released FM4 update (one and only) that provided us with Simulation physics and proper 900-degree linearity (still emulated, still plagued by connectivity issues, but it was working, thank God).

In the meantime, GT5 was released, with another great USB/HID wheel to support it, Thrustmaster T500RS. Needless to say, Fanatec was smart enough to never produce wheel that will only work with X360, so many CSR/CSRE owners also opted for those wheels because they were multiplatform - and were giving a better performance when in USB-HID mode, just to highlight that little fact.

And then came 2013 and recent news. And all I feel is complete disbelief.

Almost a full decade later I still can't fathom what is going on in heads at people at Microsoft. How can anyone with even grain of sanity in their head decide to create a simulation-driving game that will be first-party and funded with hundreds of million of dollars through its development - but in the same time decide it will not support a peripheral standard that is superior then Xinput while already embraced by hundreds of thousands (if not even millions) players of that same genre in the world?

They didn't opted to loose potential sales and buildup of userbase on only one platform (Xbox and Forza 1) or two platforms (Forza 2/3/4 and X360) - they now decided to do the same with the third consecutive platform and make angry all people who invested into extremely expensive peripherals to play their flagship racing franchise - and other driving games on their platform that were only supporting Xinput - through last 7 years. Why are they doing that? What is the math beyond such short-sighted and absolutely non-visionary decision?

I can only fathom the success Forza series would have if first game and first console were to support 270-FFB wheels of the time and if Forza 2 supported the same. I can only fathom what stellar numbers would they achieved if X360 and Forza 3 - released in the very time of Gran Depression™ - were to support USB-HID wheels. And what would it done to popularity of the franchise and platform itself. Also, success of Forza 4 would probably be much greater, same for Forza Horizon. And same for all other driving games - and as we all know X360 had a damn great number of them, from exclusive ones (PGR, TDU, RacePro) to multiplatform releases (when I am already writing this down, I have to congratulate Codemasters on their FFB engine used on X360, it was probably the best third-party FFB on X360, great job done there in all Codemasters games, especially F1 2011, Dirt 3 and GRID 2) - which would all be much more popular and played (and BOUGHT, together with damn XBOX LIVE GOLD sweet money needed to play online) if Microsoft only decided to support the standard and technology they invented and founded themselves in year 2000.

And for the final spectacle, they now have a Forza 5, on next-generation console, as first simulation game that will cherish the next-gen. And in that very moment they announce how none of the X360 peripheral will be supported and there is no evidence they will ditch Xinput in favor of DirectInput, as everybody with some sanity would do. And in the same time, their main contender is launching a game on the current-platfoorm, handing them AGAIN an empty space to grab from sea of those ready to jump in the early adoption madness. With their USB-HID and X360 wheels in the hands, awaiting to see have the white collars of Redmond finally came to their senses.

Unbelievable.

Damn, I was really inspired now when I look the wall of text. Sorry for that, Friday night. Off to play some GT5 online with my friends. Monday is only two nights away, I am really, honestly and wholeheartedly waiting for some good news about XboxOne. May support for USB-HID standard be that news.

Mi no entender.
Alguien que lo resuma, please. :)
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
Imagen
entonces siguen con su propio standard o con el de logitech??,para entendrenos
indigo_rs escribió:Imagen


jojojojo luces encendidas?¿
chris76 escribió:entonces siguen con su propio standard o con el de logitech??,para entendrenos


Espero que el Fanatec funcione, sino me joden vivo....

Buenas imágenes indigo, gracias por postearlas.

Un saludo.
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
Imagen

Imagen
Que mal me va el internet coño, espero que la X1 no me lo tenga en cuenta.. [+furioso]

Un saludo.

Era un post repetido.
pero de donde salieron? bueno el lunes tendremos gameplay juju
OMG 60 frames 1080P y first day ?¿? Madre de mi vida.... Venga downgrade gpu, venga check in 24 horas y venga TV, pero el primer VS con PS4 ( Drive club) por la piedra x3 1080P 60 y encima lo destroza en gráficos e iluminacion.
Creéis que tendrá cambios climatológicos y varias mejoras en esos aspectos?

Un saludo.
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
Y dicen que la consola es poco potente, Full HD 60fps con unos gráficos e iluminación que quitan el hipo [qmparto] [qmparto] [qmparto]
Jonystilo escribió:Creéis que tendrá cambios climatológicos y varias mejoras en esos aspectos?

Un saludo.


¿Para el lanzamiento? bufff, salvo que los de Turn10 trabajen bajo la presión de un buen látigo lo veo difícil XD
Yo espero realmente que tenga mucha variedad de circuitos, los anteriores había mucha zona desértica y se parecían mucho no?
Pablopictures escribió:
Jonystilo escribió:Creéis que tendrá cambios climatológicos y varias mejoras en esos aspectos?

Un saludo.


¿Para el lanzamiento? bufff, salvo que los de Turn10 trabajen bajo la presión de un buen látigo lo veo difícil XD


Pues creo que ya va siendo hora que metan cambios climáticos, ahora no tendrán la excusa de que quieren mantener los 60 fps porque creo que tienen suficiente potencia como para hacerlos... A ver si se lo curran de aquí a navidades casi.

Amén de que metan más circuitos reales como spa, por ejemplo.

Un saludo.
Jonystilo escribió:
Pablopictures escribió:
Jonystilo escribió:Creéis que tendrá cambios climatológicos y varias mejoras en esos aspectos?

Un saludo.


¿Para el lanzamiento? bufff, salvo que los de Turn10 trabajen bajo la presión de un buen látigo lo veo difícil XD


Pues creo que ya va siendo hora que metan cambios climáticos, ahora no tendrán la excusa de que quieren mantener los 60 fps porque creo que tienen suficiente potencia como para hacerlos... A ver si se lo curran de aquí a navidades casi.

Amén de que metan más circuitos reales como spa, por ejemplo.

Un saludo.


Es imposible que de tiempo, me parece una brutalidad lo que he visto, deja que lo pongan poco a poco...
Poco a poco? van por la quinta entrega ya, yo también he visto buenos gráficos aquí a falta de ver gameplay, pero creo que debería ser un paso adelante con la nueva gen.

Un saludo.
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
La distancia de dibujado es increible, menuda pasada ver la ciudad totalmente detallada desde la lejania con el sol reflejándose en los tejados, las sombras... jamás habia visto algo igual [tadoramo]
Locks Quest escribió:OMG 60 frames 1080P y first day ?¿? Madre de mi vida.... Venga downgrade gpu, venga check in 24 horas y venga TV, pero el primer VS con PS4 ( Drive club) por la piedra x3 1080P 60 y encima lo destroza en gráficos e iluminacion.


No entiendo que quieres decir [comor?]

Yo solo digo que si se b así y tienes muchos numeros que sera así podremos seguir hablando de tv tv tv , 24 horas etc pero con los cojones al suelo y el babero puesto, menuda pintaza el Forza.


[babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas]
alvarions escribió:
Locks Quest escribió:OMG 60 frames 1080P y first day ?¿? Madre de mi vida.... Venga downgrade gpu, venga check in 24 horas y venga TV, pero el primer VS con PS4 ( Drive club) por la piedra x3 1080P 60 y encima lo destroza en gráficos e iluminacion.


No entiendo el mesaje.

Yo solo digo que si se b así y tienes muchos numeros que sera así podremos seguir hablando de tv tv tv , 24 horas etc pero con los cojones al suelo, menuda pintaza el Forza.


[babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas]


Pues eso no tiene mucha mas explicación jaja lo has entendido OK en cuanto al VS esta mas que claro tanta tontería con la no consola y en el primer VS Drive club VS Forza 5 se lo requetefolla 1080p 60 con una iluminacion, texturas y sombras de otro mundo contra un juego mediocre a 720P 30 frames. Y en físicas, comunidad y numero de modelos no creo que se le acerque tampoco.
Locks Quest escribió:
alvarions escribió:
Locks Quest escribió:OMG 60 frames 1080P y first day ?¿? Madre de mi vida.... Venga downgrade gpu, venga check in 24 horas y venga TV, pero el primer VS con PS4 ( Drive club) por la piedra x3 1080P 60 y encima lo destroza en gráficos e iluminacion.


No entiendo el mesaje.

Yo solo digo que si se b así y tienes muchos numeros que sera así podremos seguir hablando de tv tv tv , 24 horas etc pero con los cojones al suelo, menuda pintaza el Forza.


[babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas] [babas]


Pues eso no tiene mucha mas explicación jaja lo has entendido OK en cuanto al VS esta mas que claro tanta tontería con la no consola y en el primer VS Drive club VS Forza 5 se lo requetefolla 1080p 60 con una iluminacion, texturas y sombras de otro mundo contra un juego mediocre a 720P 30 frames. Y en físicas, comunidad y numero de modelos no creo que se le acerque tampoco.



A ok es que el VS me habia descolocado no sabia que querías decir con VS, ahora lo pillo (coparación) xd.

Saludos y la verdad es que chapo que graficazos.
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
Posible recorrido del circuito en Praga.

Imagen
Pfff.... em.... aún deseo ver un gameplay como tiene que ser para ver claramente como va a ser el juego, pero estoy empezando a cagarme mucho más en la puñetera filosofía de Ms y su Next gen [snif]
No se por que pero este FM 5 cada vez me recuerda mas a un PGR
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
mecro escribió:No se por que pero este FM 5 cada vez me recuerda mas a un PGR


A mi esta ambientación también me recuerda a las ciudades majestuosas del PGR, pero en este caso los gráficos y los entornos están a otro nivel [babas]
indigo_rs escribió:
mecro escribió:No se por que pero este FM 5 cada vez me recuerda mas a un PGR


A mi esta ambientación también me recuerda a las ciudades majestuosas del PGR, pero en este caso los gráficos y los entornos están a otro nivel [babas]


Yo hasta que no vea un Gameplay real no me creo nada. Todas las generaciones pasa lo mismo y luego hay un downgrade
Este juego de lanzamiento es un caramelo, es como la manzana de Adan y Eva [sonrisa] tentación.
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
mecro escribió:
indigo_rs escribió:
mecro escribió:No se por que pero este FM 5 cada vez me recuerda mas a un PGR


A mi esta ambientación también me recuerda a las ciudades majestuosas del PGR, pero en este caso los gráficos y los entornos están a otro nivel [babas]


Yo hasta que no vea un Gameplay real no me creo nada. Todas las generaciones pasa lo mismo y luego hay un downgrade


Solo faltan 2 dias para verlo [carcajad] , pero los trailers que han mostrado de Forza 4 también estan hechos con material ingame asi que yo no dudaria de Turn 10.
mecro escribió:
indigo_rs escribió:
mecro escribió:No se por que pero este FM 5 cada vez me recuerda mas a un PGR


A mi esta ambientación también me recuerda a las ciudades majestuosas del PGR, pero en este caso los gráficos y los entornos están a otro nivel [babas]


Yo hasta que no vea un Gameplay real no me creo nada. Todas las generaciones pasa lo mismo y luego hay un downgrade


Si fuese de otra compañía me lo podría esperar, pero Turn 10 que yo sepa, siempre muestran lo que hay con el motor del juego, en este caso dudo que haya downgrade.

Sobre los circuitos urbanos... miedo me da, preferiría que pusiesen circuitos reales que urbanos, la verdad. Ahora, si meten un montón de reales y un montón de urbanos tampoco me voy a quejar.

Un saludo.
Es que aun no me creo que esos gráficos con esas sombras e iluminación volumetrica ademas de antialias perfecto (de gráfica de PC de mil euros). Encima sea tan flexible que te deje ensuciar los coches, abollarlos, ponerles los layers del editor de todos los forzas y encima dia/noche o meteo. De verdad lo veo imposible el primer día...
Locks Quest escribió:Es que aun no me creo que esos gráficos con esas sombras e iluminación volumetrica ademas de antialias perfecto (de gráfica de PC de mil euros). Encima sea tan flexible que te deje ensuciar los coches, abollarlos, ponerles los layers del editor de todos los forzas y encima dia/noche o meteo. De verdad lo veo imposible el primer día...


Hombre, lo de día y noche no se sabe, yo apuesto a que no lo implementan. Pero si, pinta bien, veremos pasado mañana lo que muestran.

Un saludo.
Hombre, el Horizon hay día y noche y hablamos de Xbox360, y en uno de los gifs se ven las luces encendidas de un Pagani Huayra (diría que es ese). Yo pediría eso, más clima y boxes animados (vamos lo que se supone que tendrá Project Cars). Sería lo deseable, a ver en qué queda.
indigo_rs escribió:Imagen

Imagen


Hola compañero antes todo mil gracias por traer noticias frescas, queria preguntar de donde sacas esos gif, si hasta donde se solo hay un video mostrado sobre el juego, yo estoy que pataleo con el tema de la conexion permanente pero es que forza 4 es el titulo al que mas horas le he dedicado, y no me imagino perderme el 5 [buuuaaaa] y con que se vea asi ya me la han vendido [360º]
Todo esto sale de un video de gamespot con juegos que seran presentados en este E3
Si se ve asi, mientras estoy jugando online, me han vendido la consola y el juego.
El problema es que se vea asi y arrastre ciertas carencias que tenían los otros forza, me explico.



- ¿Se ha visto algo sobre el tema de pintar los coches?
mejor dicho sobre la representación de estos diseños ingame, mientras jugábamos. En los anteriores forza los diseños, mientras los hacías, se veían muy bien pero a la de jugar notabas que pegaban una bajada de resolución importante.

Esto, si eres aficionado a sacar Screenshoot, jodía bastante. Se veía un modelado de coche increíble mientras que el diseño que habías aplicado parecía que lo habían estampado a 320x200 (es un decir).

- Otro tema tiene que ver con las repeticiones de las carreras.
No muestran lo exactamente como has corrido la carrera. Me refiero por ejemplo a las frenadas, derrapes, acelerones, pases por curva, movimiento del volante... Estos son falsos.
Tengo grabadas repeticiones que la veo y me parece falso el movimiento del coche, respecto a como he jugado yo. Algunas veces parece que se desliza lateralmente, que el coche se inclina tarde a la hora de tomar una curva, pequeños detalles que afea mucho la verdad. Es como si fuera una interpretación algo liviana de lo que ha pasado.

Este detalle lo he visto en prácticamente todos los simuladores de conducción, ya sea consola o pc. Digo prácticamente por que solo hay uno que no ocurre, bueno que casi no ocurre. Iracing.
En este la visión desde tu coche, desde el resto de coches no, es perfecta. Representa fielmente todo los detalles de la conducción y reacción del coche.




Esta claro que Forza va a mostrar muy buenos gráficos, muy pulidos, a 1080p 60fps pero si no corrige estos detalles, estos se van a ver potenciados por la mayo "claridad" gráfica que se va a mostrar.
Lo que comentas de los diseños es cierto, jode bastante, yo además incluiría más capas. Por otra parte yo lo que quiero de una vez es clima, cambio de día-noche, boxes animados con opción de seleccionar que le haces al coche y que volvamos al desgaste de neumáticos de los Forza 1 y 2, si ya se que no es normal que en 20 vueltas tengas que entrar a cambiar neumáticos y combustible, que no son F1s, pero le daba más vidilla a las carreras.
Cierto es que dudo bastante que lleguemos a ver todo esto en la primera entrega de nueva generación, pero con una consola al menos 8 veces superior a la 360 debería ser posible y han tenido dos años para hacerlo.
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
Solo queda 1 dia [tadoramo] . Pero fijaros con que nivel de detalle se ve la ciudad de fondo, con los edificios reflejando la luz del sol y proyectando sombras. Si parece un entorno real [tadoramo]
tendremos otra vez modo autovista, pero espero que sean bastantes mas coches y que esta vez no tengas que salir e ir especificamente a autovista, si no que el coche que lo tenga te de la opcion de verlo desde el propio garage.
litos001 escribió:
Teaser « All in-game Footage » de Forza Motorsport 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOZNHGlN ... r_embedded


[plas] [plas] [plas]
Esa imagen es del Forza 4 :-|
NucelarGen escribió:Imagen


Este es el resumen y motivo por el que soy súper-escéptico con todo lo que anuncian/enseñan.
jaKal escribió:
NucelarGen escribió:Imagen


Este es el resumen y motivo por el que soy súper-escéptico con todo lo que anuncian/enseñan.

Es que lo que enseñaran mañana es INGAME,y ya hay no hay ni trampa ni carton
Con esta calidad de videos de youtube es difícil apreciar ya un salto evidente. Todavía no se porque ponen el tema de seleccionar calidad si se ve siempre fatal aunque sean videos de calidad. Es como los canales HD de muchas televisiones, que de HD tienen poco o nada.

Espero que en envíen videos de calidad desde el E3 o las compañías a los medios y que estos los publiquen con calidad o estamos perdidos
De "supuesto in-game" de Forza 4 nadaaaa ¡¡ modo autovista para hacer una demostración de kinect en ese E3 y se dijo bien clarito. La bilis por la recontrafollada del Forza 5 al Drive Club chorrea los monitores que da gusto. xD
jose juan escribió:
jaKal escribió:
NucelarGen escribió:Imagen


Este es el resumen y motivo por el que soy súper-escéptico con todo lo que anuncian/enseñan.

Es que lo que enseñaran mañana es INGAME,y ya hay no hay ni trampa ni carton


No me hagáis mucho caso pero creo recordar que esa imagen se uso para la promoción del Forza 4.
¿Tu has visto esa calidad en FM4?. Yo no.

Compara los que nos vendian con lo que se vio:
Humo:
Imagen

Zas, en toda la voca.
Imagen
indigo_rs está baneado por "saltarse el ban con un clon"
mecro escribió:
jose juan escribió:
jaKal escribió:
Este es el resumen y motivo por el que soy súper-escéptico con todo lo que anuncian/enseñan.

Es que lo que enseñaran mañana es INGAME,y ya hay no hay ni trampa ni carton


No me hagáis mucho caso pero creo recordar que esa imagen se uso para la promoción del Forza 4.
¿Tu has visto esa calidad en FM4?. Yo no.


Esa es una imagen del modo foto, no es ingame.
mecro a mi esa foto me da igual,ya sabemos que les meten cosas para todo bonito,lo visto ayer y lo que veremos mañana es lo que veremos en el juego
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