PS3 HD data format (partitions, data, etc)

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Hi everybody,

Sorry, but "no hablo español", only portuguese and english. So, I'll post in these two languages.

Anybody knowns anything about the format (crypted or not) the PS3 use to store data, partitions, etc on the HD?

I´ve made some experiments to gain a little more experience with this and will post the results as soon I achieve something interesting.

If anybody knowns anything, please share with us! Thanks!


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Alguém sabe alguma coisa sobre o formato que o PS3 usa para gravar dados no HD? (partições, dados, etc - se estão encriptados ou não).

Eu estou realizando alguns experimentos para ganhar mais experiência com este assunto e postarei meus resultados assim que obtiver alcançado algum ponto interessante.

Se alguém aqui sabe alguma coisa sobre isto, por favor compartilhe conosco! Obrigado!



[]s
Talruum.


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Details and data collected so far:

1 - I bought a new 60GB notebook sata HD.
2 - In PC, I filled the first 2GB of data on the disk with "zeros" (0).
3 - Inserted this disk on PS3 - PS3 told me: "need to format disk", and I did.
4 - Put the HD back on PC and dump the first 2GB of the disk.
5 - Used jdiff to see the differences between the "zero filled" dump and the dump of the "PS3 formated disk".
6 - The difference is about 87KB. I got the data and will analyze later.
7 - Filled the disk with "zeros" again
8 - Formatted the disk in PS3 again
9 - Send a 80MB video file from SD card to HD.
10 - Put back the HD formated in PS3 and with the video file on PC.
11 - Dumped the first 2GB and compared with the dump of "Fresh PS3 formated"
12 - The differences seens 217KB. Will analyze this data later.

Conclusions so far:

1 - The differences looks like a real modern filesystems, where some "backup superblocks" and other filesystem things reside on some "blocks" of the disk.

2 - PS3 doesn´t start to write "data" file on the first blocks of the disk (I can´t find the 80mb file data on the first 2GB of the disk).


What´s the point and the idea here:

"I got the real data of the 80mb video file, so, what about find these data on the disk, filling everything with zeros and comparing with the disk formated and only with these 80mb video file. With these two "80mb" data, assuming that one data is valid, and another one is encrypted, we can start to figure out HOW the data is stored on the PS3 disk, and MAYBE, start a way to read/write the disk, opening ways to analyze the demos, installed games, etc..."


This is only a data analyze, so, I´m not making anything illegal here.


Will continue my reasearch and post new results asap.


[]s
Talruum
I think you know more than anybody here... So don't expect many "helpers" (I would be grateful to help, but my general hardware level isn't high enough)

I can only say that I think the PS3 filesystem is still a mystery

Hope you find something interesting! [beer]
And don't leave the experiments! (Most discoveries of the history were found unexpectedly)

[bye]
Maybe you should send a private message to ''Hermes'',this guy was investigating the ps3 hdd a few months ago,and he got some interesting conclusions.He's also a good person so he will be pleased to help you(but don't talk with him about game backups,or he will become mad [carcajad] )
Nice work, guy. Nobody here think of it, but it sounds hopefull. If you could, post the whole proccess and many people of El Otro Lado, most of them spanish-speakers, will try to help you. Post the progress of your research as soon as it be possible, please.

What do you think about making a partition of 1 GB (or less, if it's possible) and writing it totally?

Unfortunately, I can't help you 'cause I don't have PS3 yet ;-) .

Thanks for all.
talruum escribió:Alguém sabe alguma coisa sobre o formato que o PS3 usa para gravar dados no HD? (partições, dados, etc - se estão encriptados ou não).

Eu estou realizando alguns experimentos para ganhar mais experiência com este assunto e postarei meus resultados assim que obtiver alcançado algum ponto interessante.
Oi, talruum.

Falando do formato de dados no HD, posso dizer que eles são encripted embaixo de uma chave regular que pode ser "derrotada" usando bruteforce. Mas, este processo toma demasiado muito tempo xD

Obviamente, ele é um determinado sistema de encriptação, mas isto é todo que posso dizer por agora :)

Mesmo embora, haja muitas pessoas que estudam isto (e outro material), portanto continue trabalhando nisto ou estudar outro material como a encriptação no BlueRay e i/o ;)

Se você precisar de ajuda em algo, não duvide de contatar comigo.
talruum escribió:Conclusions so far:

1 - The differences looks like a real modern filesystems, where some "backup superblocks" and other filesystem things reside on some "blocks" of the disk.

2 - PS3 doesn´t start to write "data" file on the first blocks of the disk (I can´t find the 80mb file data on the first 2GB of the disk).


What´s the point and the idea here:

"I got the real data of the 80mb video file, so, what about find these data on the disk, filling everything with zeros and comparing with the disk formated and only with these 80mb video file. With these two "80mb" data, assuming that one data is valid, and another one is encrypted, we can start to figure out HOW the data is stored on the PS3 disk, and MAYBE, start a way to read/write the disk, opening ways to analyze the demos, installed games, etc..."
Muitos obrigado por aquela informação. :)

De qualquer maneira, como eu disse, seria mais interessante conseguir o BlueRay e outro material como Hiperviseira i/o, etc.

Se eu tiver o tempo depois, direi mais sobre isto o material de hd que você falava :)
Found new insights:

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The PS3 HDD is a 2.5" SATA Notebook HDD - 5400RPM MAX.

The PS3 File system is Fat32 derived; w/LBA48 enabled Bios.

The HDD is encrypted with a Sony proprietary format, each HDD is individualized and an interesting block pattern occurs after 380MB.

The HDD is encrypted with a (most probably) Sony proprietary format.

If Linux is setup on the machine, the HDD will contain the relevant ext2 or ext3 partitions, but it will NOT be visible to a regular O/S. This is because, the HDD does NOT have a standard partition table. If one uses WinHex to scan the HDD, then the program will find the ext2/ext3/swap partitions at their respective offsets.

A program has been written to scan blocks of 16bytes for where contiguous data is on the HDD. This program has identified major blocks of data on a freshly formatted 60GB HDD.

Another major interest is that right around the 380MB marker, there is a change in the blocks of data to 64KB, and this repeats itself EVERY 183.72MBs. The 64KB worth of markers every so often, is a mystery at the moment.

Each HDD is "individualized" the moment it is formatted on a particular PS3 unit. An individualized HDD CANNOT be used in another PS3 unit due to (in theory) a unit based signature being written to each HDD.

A project is underway to "individualize" 2 of same make and model (Seagate Momentus 60GB 2.5" SATA) HDDs and perform a byte level diff to spot differences in the disk layouts.

This difference will also be analyzed by the data block scanning program mentioned above.

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Original from here: http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3media&thread.id=42479
Really good job!! Nobody here in Spain has done something similar. If you continue this amazing job, I think it will convert in the start of the scene in PS3. I don't know much about hardware, but if you need my PS3, only ask it [ok]

PD: You're gonna be consider a god... [tadoramo] [tadoramo] [tadoramo]
Makinus escribió:Really good job!! Nobody here in Spain has done something similar. If you continue this amazing job, I think it will convert in the start of the scene in PS3. I don't know much about hardware, but if you need my PS3, only ask it [ok]

PD: You're gonna be consider a god... [tadoramo] [tadoramo] [tadoramo]


Don't go so far little friend; isn't here nothing relevant... yet.

Alek, you're a monster. You speak portuguese too. A CRACK. We love you, Mr. Tuto.
Wowowowowow como dominan ingles/portugues los Eolianos, quer aprendan otro foros. xD
Pero que coño...NO ENTIENDO UNA MIERDA...HABLEN ESPAÑOL JOER¡¡
PD: Si Manolo Escobar levantara la cabeza...
y asi un resumen general en spanish?
gmrgmr1989 escribió:y asi un resumen general en spanish?

Aunque he entendido algunas cosillas, me uno a la propuesta. :-p
El lleva haciendo experimentos para usar el hd de la ps3 para escribir datos, particiones y todo a su antojo.

pero quiere saber si nosotros sabemos alguna forma de hacer esto (ya sea ''oficial'' o no ''oficial'').

y al parecer ya lleva buenos avances este chico.

Hi talruum, i think that you know more than us, because mora sceners speak english and we dont understand that languaje.

Only y wish you luck in your project and if you have a new notice, please come her with it X-D

PD: lo se, mi ingles es cutre [boing]
I don't know a damn of PS3 hard disks (I promised myself I'd take a look into it... three months ago) but, if only for the sake of curiosity, I want to ask you if there are any ATA security commands (like the ones found on the original Xbox and the most recent one) enabled on PS3 hard disks.

I've found your post and your inquiries most intriguing, and if there's somehting I can do to help you, just ask for it. Maybe we won't go any further than raise the expectations of our fellows, but at least we can feel we're doing something productive to the PS3 scene.
damian83 escribió:PD: Si Manolo Escobar levantara la cabeza...


Ni que estuviese muerto [+risas]
Resumen en español:

Detalles y datos recogidos hasta ahora:

1 - he comprado un HD de pportatil de 60GB.
2 - En un PC, he rellenado los primeros 2GB del disco duro con CEROS (0).
3 - Inserte el disco en la PS3 - PS3 me advierte que 'necesita formatear el disco' y lo hice.
4 - Volvi a colocar el disco en el PC y volque los dos primeros GB.
5 - Use un programa para sacar la DIFERENCIA entre el Dump "relleno de ceros" y el Dump "Disco Formateado PS3".
6 - La diferencia entre esos 2GB se reducen a unos 87KB. recogi los datos y los analizare despues.
7 - Rellene el disco con "ceros" de nuevo
8 - Volvi a formatear el disco en PS3
9 - Envie un video de 80MB de una tarjeta SD al HD.
10 - Regrese el HD al PC.
11 - Volvi a volcar los dos primeros GB y lo compare con (IMPORTANTE) el Dump de "HD recien formateado
Nota del Traductor: En este momento tiene 3 Dumps: el dump de Ceros, el Dump de recien formateado y el Dump formateado con un disco de 80MB
12 - Las diferencias en este caso son de 217KB. Analizare estos datos depues.

Conclusiones por el momento:

1 - Las diferencias parecen que presentan a un sistema de ficheros moderno, donde algunos "Superbloques de Backup" y algunas cosas mas del sistema de ficheros residen en algunos bloques del disco. (NdT: segun lo entiendo yo, Tallum da a entender que el sistema de ficheros de PS3 se parece mas a Ext2-3 o NTFS que a FAT32)

2 - PS3 no empieza escribiendo datos en los primeros bloques del disco (No pude encontrar el video de 80MB en los primeros 2GB del disco).


¿Cual es la idea aqui?:

"Tengo los datos reales del fichero de video de 80MB, asi que si relleno el disco de Ceros, formateo el disco, vuelco el video al HD y le hago un dump completo sabre donde almacena la PS3 dicho archivo, y tambien, si encripta dicho archivo o no. De esta forma, QUIZAS podamos empezar a imaginar COMO se escriben los datos al disco, abriendo vias para analizar demos, juegos instalados, etc..."

NdT: No voy a dar un resumen al español de forma constante, asi que los que no sepais Ingles, ya va siendo hora que lo aprendais, que segun tengo entendido, lo siguen enseñando en la escuela publica.
Gracias por la traduccion.

Alguien a probado a clonar el HD con norton gosh haber si desde norton explorer se localiza algun archivo interesante?.

Un saludo.
D3lta, creo que este hombre esta usando linux para estos procederes, asi que el uso de norton ghost no creo que sea posible.
Veeeery good approach.

Please keep on working this area mate!!,

i think this is the appropriate way to have a decent ps3 scene. Probably would be hard but in the end this has to provide us a way to read/write from linux or from a PC to PS3 partition that definitely will OPEN the PS3 Scene.

I´m really glad that people like you (talruum) start working on the scene.

Help needed? please warn us!!!

If you share the tools and/or explain a bit the method i would perform the same tests and we can compare the results (in order to have tests with as much PS3 as possible) and try to find the signature and encription method

Cheers!!
talrumm, can you try to zero-fill HDD, format in PS3, and install Pro Evolution Socer 2008?

after that, do a diff with the zero-filled image and see if a 'PS3 installed game' is scrambled in the HDD

PD: please, from now, name the HardDisk as HDD, to don't mistake with HighDefinition.
wabo escribió:
Don't go so far little friend; isn't here nothing relevant... yet.

Alek, you're a monster. You speak portuguese too. A CRACK. We love you, Mr. Tuto.


What the fuck u wanna mean? Where's Alek? I don't see any Alek here... [tomaaa]
-MasMe- escribió:
What the fuck u wanna mean? Where's Alek? I don't see any Alek here... [tomaaa]


My message is splitted in two very different parts:

- Part 1: I was quoting a Makinus message.
- Part 2: I was congratulating (¿?) Alek for his languages level. Alek, if you don't know, is Mr. Tuto, a great EOLiano that helped (and will help) many people with their PS3, PSP and stuff.

That's all.
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