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Juegos
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Archivado
alherte
11 feb 2006 12:27
Novato
4
mensajes
desde
dic 2005
11 feb 2006 12:27
Enlace permanente
la caña
http://etqw.at/include.php?path=content/content.php&contentid=3&catid=2&themeid=0
http://pc.canaljuegos.com/PC/producto.asp?idproducto=1427&juego=Enemy+Territory%3A+Quake+Wars
http://www.enemyterritory.com/
</ifra </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p1703969801" data-id="1703969801" itemscope itemprop="suggestedAnswer" itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" class="row post " > <div itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" class="col-xs-24 col-sm-6 col-md-4 col-lg-3 profile" > <span> <span itemprop="name" class="author ellipsize"> xcast </span></span> <time class="visible-xs-block" datetime="2006-02-11T11:45:03+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 12:45:03"> <a class="permalink unread" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703969801"> 11 feb 2006 12:45 </a> </time> <div class="mobile-profile-btn"><span></span><span></span><span></span></div> <div class="avatar" title="xcast no está conectado"> <img itemprop="image" src="https://download.elotrolado.net/avatares/30918" alt="Avatar de xcast"> </div> <div class="mobile-profile"> <div class="status">donde no, no hay...</div> <div class="staff"> </div> <div class="about"> <b> 622 </b> mensajes <br>y <b>2</b> fotos<br>desde <b>may 2003</b><br>en <b>Con nuevo GT: OXM xcast</b> </div> <div class="buttons"> </div> </div> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 mobile-profile-wrap"></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-18 col-md-20 col-lg-21 content"> <div class="visible-xs-block"> </div> <div class="row hidden-xs"> <div class="first-half col-sm-24 col-md-12"> <time itemprop="dateCreated" datetime="2006-02-11T11:45:03+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 12:45:03"> <a itemprop="url" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703969801" class="permalink share unread" rel="nofollow"> 11 feb 2006 12:45 </a> </time> </div> <div class="col-sm-24 col-md-12 actions"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <div class="buttons"> <a class="permalink share visible-xs-inline-block" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703969801" rel="nofollow">Enlace permanente</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div itemprop="text" class="col-xs-24 message "> pero si este juego es solo pa PC, que más nos dará a nosotros... </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="geZv9eGb"><div class="text-center visible-md-block"> <div class="r89-desktop-billboard-atf ad-md" style="min-height:250px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 20px;"></div> </div><div class="text-center visible-lg-block"> <div class="r89-desktop-billboard-atf ad-lg" style="min-height:250px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 20px;"></div> </div><div class="text-center visible-xs-block" style=" padding-bottom: 10px; margin-left:-10px;margin-right:-10px;margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:10px"> <div class="dfp-queue" data-path="/1036653/300x600" data-revenuemaker-ads style="width:300px;height:600px;overflow:hidden"></div> </div><div class="text-center visible-sm-block" style=" padding-bottom: 10px; margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:10px"> <div class="dfp-queue" data-path="/1036653/300x600" data-revenuemaker-ads style="width:300px;height:600px;overflow:hidden"></div> </div></div> <div id="p1703969824" data-id="1703969824" itemscope itemprop="suggestedAnswer" itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" class="row post " > <div itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" class="col-xs-24 col-sm-6 col-md-4 col-lg-3 profile" > <span> <span itemprop="name" class="author ellipsize"> alherte </span></span> <time class="visible-xs-block" datetime="2006-02-11T11:49:44+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 12:49:44"> <a class="permalink unread" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703969824"> 11 feb 2006 12:49 </a> </time> <div class="mobile-profile-btn"><span></span><span></span><span></span></div> <div class="avatar" title="alherte no está conectado"> <img itemprop="image" src="https://download.elotrolado.net/avatares/75196" alt="Avatar de alherte"> </div> <div class="mobile-profile"> <div class="status">Novato</div> <div class="staff"> </div> <div class="about"> <b> 4 </b> mensajes<br>desde <b>dic 2005</b> </div> <div class="buttons"> </div> </div> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 mobile-profile-wrap"></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-18 col-md-20 col-lg-21 content"> <div class="visible-xs-block"> </div> <div class="row hidden-xs"> <div class="first-half col-sm-24 col-md-12"> <time itemprop="dateCreated" datetime="2006-02-11T11:49:44+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 12:49:44"> <a itemprop="url" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703969824" class="permalink share unread" rel="nofollow"> 11 feb 2006 12:49 </a> </time> </div> <div class="col-sm-24 col-md-12 actions"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <div class="buttons"> <a class="permalink share visible-xs-inline-block" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703969824" rel="nofollow">Enlace permanente</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div itemprop="text" class="col-xs-24 message "> Esta confiirmado tambien para 360 <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.ultimagame.com/pc/enemy_territory.._quake_wars/detalles_d2760_0.html" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">http://www.ultimagame.com/pc/enemy_territory.._quake_wars/detalles_d2760_0.html</a> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p1703970011" data-id="1703970011" itemscope itemprop="suggestedAnswer" itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" class="row post " > <div itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" class="col-xs-24 col-sm-6 col-md-4 col-lg-3 profile" > <span> <span itemprop="name" class="author ellipsize"> radeonxt </span></span> <time class="visible-xs-block" datetime="2006-02-11T12:23:04+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 13:23:04"> <a class="permalink unread" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703970011"> 11 feb 2006 13:23 </a> </time> <div class="mobile-profile-btn"><span></span><span></span><span></span></div> <div class="avatar" title="radeonxt no está conectado"> <img itemprop="image" src="https://download.elotrolado.net/avatares/62514" alt="Avatar de radeonxt"> </div> <div class="mobile-profile"> <div class="status">:D</div> <div class="staff"> </div> <div class="about"> <b> 27.266 </b> mensajes<br>desde <b>abr 2005</b> </div> <div class="buttons"> </div> </div> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 mobile-profile-wrap"></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-18 col-md-20 col-lg-21 content"> <div class="visible-xs-block"> </div> <div class="row hidden-xs"> <div class="first-half col-sm-24 col-md-12"> <time itemprop="dateCreated" datetime="2006-02-11T12:23:04+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 13:23:04"> <a itemprop="url" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703970011" class="permalink share unread" rel="nofollow"> 11 feb 2006 13:23 </a> </time> </div> <div class="col-sm-24 col-md-12 actions"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <div class="buttons"> <a class="permalink share visible-xs-inline-block" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703970011" rel="nofollow">Enlace permanente</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div itemprop="text" class="col-xs-24 message "> ya hay un post sobre esto, con imagenes y demás... salu2... </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p1703970099" data-id="1703970099" itemscope itemprop="suggestedAnswer" itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" class="row post " > <div itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" class="col-xs-24 col-sm-6 col-md-4 col-lg-3 profile" > <span> <span itemprop="name" class="author ellipsize"> xcast </span></span> <time class="visible-xs-block" datetime="2006-02-11T12:39:35+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 13:39:35"> <a class="permalink unread" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703970099"> 11 feb 2006 13:39 </a> </time> <div class="mobile-profile-btn"><span></span><span></span><span></span></div> <div class="avatar" title="xcast no está conectado"> <img itemprop="image" src="https://download.elotrolado.net/avatares/30918" alt="Avatar de xcast"> </div> <div class="mobile-profile"> <div class="status">donde no, no hay...</div> <div class="staff"> </div> <div class="about"> <b> 622 </b> mensajes <br>y <b>2</b> fotos<br>desde <b>may 2003</b><br>en <b>Con nuevo GT: OXM xcast</b> </div> <div class="buttons"> </div> </div> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 mobile-profile-wrap"></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-18 col-md-20 col-lg-21 content"> <div class="visible-xs-block"> </div> <div class="row hidden-xs"> <div class="first-half col-sm-24 col-md-12"> <time itemprop="dateCreated" datetime="2006-02-11T12:39:35+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 13:39:35"> <a itemprop="url" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703970099" class="permalink share unread" rel="nofollow"> 11 feb 2006 13:39 </a> </time> </div> <div class="col-sm-24 col-md-12 actions"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <div class="buttons"> <a class="permalink share visible-xs-inline-block" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703970099" rel="nofollow">Enlace permanente</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div itemprop="text" class="col-xs-24 message "> Yo no apostaría mi cuello por que salga, si no está anunciado ya, para mi que va a ser que no. Y lo que pone en esa web no es más que un rumorzuelo sin demasiado fundamento. </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p1703971139" data-id="1703971139" itemscope itemprop="suggestedAnswer" itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" class="row post " > <div itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" class="col-xs-24 col-sm-6 col-md-4 col-lg-3 profile" > <span> <span itemprop="name" class="author ellipsize"> Draifet </span></span> <time class="visible-xs-block" datetime="2006-02-11T16:19:48+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 17:19:48"> <a class="permalink unread" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971139"> 11 feb 2006 17:19 </a> </time> <div class="mobile-profile-btn"><span></span><span></span><span></span></div> <div class="avatar" title="Draifet no está conectado"> <img itemprop="image" src="https://download.elotrolado.net/avatares/56589" alt="Avatar de Draifet"> </div> <div class="mobile-profile"> <div class="status">miau</div> <div class="staff"> </div> <div class="about"> <b> 5.018 </b> mensajes<br>desde <b>ene 2005</b> </div> <div class="buttons"> </div> </div> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 mobile-profile-wrap"></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-18 col-md-20 col-lg-21 content"> <div class="visible-xs-block"> </div> <div class="row hidden-xs"> <div class="first-half col-sm-24 col-md-12"> <time itemprop="dateCreated" datetime="2006-02-11T16:19:48+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 17:19:48"> <a itemprop="url" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971139" class="permalink share unread" rel="nofollow"> 11 feb 2006 17:19 </a> </time> </div> <div class="col-sm-24 col-md-12 actions"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <div class="buttons"> <a class="permalink share visible-xs-inline-block" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971139" rel="nofollow">Enlace permanente</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div itemprop="text" class="col-xs-24 message "> Pues el rumorzuelo debe estar muy extendido porque lo confirman en varias paginas, ademas J. Carmack dijo que la xbox 360 le hacia mucho tilin. </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p1703971507" data-id="1703971507" itemscope itemprop="suggestedAnswer" itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" class="row post " > <div itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" class="col-xs-24 col-sm-6 col-md-4 col-lg-3 profile" > <span> <span itemprop="name" class="author ellipsize"> Ruben Pastor </span></span> <time class="visible-xs-block" datetime="2006-02-11T18:02:37+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 19:02:37"> <a class="permalink unread" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971507"> 11 feb 2006 19:02 </a> </time> <div class="mobile-profile-btn"><span></span><span></span><span></span></div> <div class="avatar" title="Ruben Pastor no está conectado"> <img itemprop="image" src="https://download.elotrolado.net/avatares/31581" alt="Avatar de Ruben Pastor"> </div> <div class="mobile-profile"> <div class="status">DSWiiXbox360Maniaco</div> <div class="staff"> </div> <div class="about"> <b> 9.985 </b> mensajes<br>desde <b>jun 2003</b><br>en <b>SEGAWORLD</b> </div> <div class="buttons"> </div> </div> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 mobile-profile-wrap"></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-18 col-md-20 col-lg-21 content"> <div class="visible-xs-block"> </div> <div class="row hidden-xs"> <div class="first-half col-sm-24 col-md-12"> <time itemprop="dateCreated" datetime="2006-02-11T18:02:37+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 19:02:37"> <a itemprop="url" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971507" class="permalink share unread" rel="nofollow"> 11 feb 2006 19:02 </a> </time> </div> <div class="col-sm-24 col-md-12 actions"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <div class="buttons"> <a class="permalink share visible-xs-inline-block" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971507" rel="nofollow">Enlace permanente</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div itemprop="text" class="col-xs-24 message "> tenemos que pensar que cualquier fps de pc tiene muchas posiblidades de salir en X360...tampoco se sabia nada del FEAR y ya se anuncio... </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p1703971706" data-id="1703971706" itemscope itemprop="suggestedAnswer" itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" class="row post " > <div itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" class="col-xs-24 col-sm-6 col-md-4 col-lg-3 profile" > <span> <span itemprop="name" class="author ellipsize"> jose juan </span></span> <time class="visible-xs-block" datetime="2006-02-11T18:47:08+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 19:47:08"> <a class="permalink unread" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971706"> 11 feb 2006 19:47 </a> </time> <div class="mobile-profile-btn"><span></span><span></span><span></span></div> <div class="avatar" title="jose juan no está conectado"> <img itemprop="image" src="https://download.elotrolado.net/avatares/78165" alt="Avatar de jose juan"> </div> <div class="mobile-profile"> <div class="status">SOY EL PUTO AMO</div> <div class="staff"> </div> <div class="about"> <b> 33.544 </b> mensajes<br>desde <b>ene 2006</b> </div> <div class="buttons"> <a itemprop="url" class="web" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.soloxboxone.com/foro/index.php" title="Página web de jose juan">Página web de jose juan</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 mobile-profile-wrap"></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-18 col-md-20 col-lg-21 content"> <div class="visible-xs-block"> </div> <div class="row hidden-xs"> <div class="first-half col-sm-24 col-md-12"> <time itemprop="dateCreated" datetime="2006-02-11T18:47:08+00:00" title="11/02/2006 - 19:47:08"> <a itemprop="url" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971706" class="permalink share unread" rel="nofollow"> 11 feb 2006 19:47 </a> </time> </div> <div class="col-sm-24 col-md-12 actions"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <div class="buttons"> <a class="permalink share visible-xs-inline-block" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703971706" rel="nofollow">Enlace permanente</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div itemprop="text" class="col-xs-24 message "> Me juego el cuello que seguro que sale tarde o temprano <img src="/images/smilies/nuevos2/fiesta.gif" alt="[fies]" title="fiesta" /> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p1703976943" data-id="1703976943" itemscope itemprop="suggestedAnswer" itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" class="row post " > <div itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" class="col-xs-24 col-sm-6 col-md-4 col-lg-3 profile" > <span> <span itemprop="name" class="author ellipsize"> petasking87 </span></span> <time class="visible-xs-block" datetime="2006-02-12T21:43:44+00:00" title="12/02/2006 - 22:43:44"> <a class="permalink unread" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703976943"> 12 feb 2006 22:43 </a> </time> <div class="mobile-profile-btn"><span></span><span></span><span></span></div> <div class="avatar" title="petasking87 no está conectado"> <img itemprop="image" src="https://download.elotrolado.net/avatares/73941" alt="Avatar de petasking87"> </div> <div class="mobile-profile"> <div class="status">de viaje con bubu!!</div> <div class="staff"> </div> <div class="about"> <b> 9.126 </b> mensajes<br>desde <b>nov 2005</b><br>en <b>el meson del brazo amigo</b> </div> <div class="buttons"> <a itemprop="url" class="web" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.weplay360.com" title="Página web de petasking87">Página web de petasking87</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 mobile-profile-wrap"></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-18 col-md-20 col-lg-21 content"> <div class="visible-xs-block"> </div> <div class="row hidden-xs"> <div class="first-half col-sm-24 col-md-12"> <time itemprop="dateCreated" datetime="2006-02-12T21:43:44+00:00" title="12/02/2006 - 22:43:44"> <a itemprop="url" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703976943" class="permalink share unread" rel="nofollow"> 12 feb 2006 22:43 </a> </time> </div> <div class="col-sm-24 col-md-12 actions"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <div class="buttons"> <a class="permalink share visible-xs-inline-block" href="https://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_enemy-territory-quake-wars_512020#p1703976943" rel="nofollow">Enlace permanente</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div class="col-xs-24"> <div class="ban-notice">petasking87 está baneado por "ATPC"</div> </div> </div> <div class="row"> <div itemprop="text" class="col-xs-24 message "> pero exactamente el juego tendra una trama para un jugador ,o estara preparado para multijugador por el live?? </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="total-replies"><span itemprop="answerCount">8</span> respuestas </div> </div> </div> <div class="row topic-actions"> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-12 nogutter"> <a title="Hilo archivado" href="./posting.php?mode=reply&f=138&t=512020" class="action-btn archived" rel="nofollow">Archivado</a ><form method="get" action="/search.php"> <input type="text" name="keywords" placeholder="Buscar en este hilo…" ><input type="submit" value="" title="Buscar"> <input type="hidden" value="512020" name="t"> <input type="hidden" value="msgonly" name="sf"> </form> </div ><div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-12 nogutter second-half"> <div class="pages"><a rel="nofollow" href="#unread" title="Primer mensaje sin leer" class="unread" ></a></div> </div> </div> <div class="text-center visible-xs-block" style=" padding-bottom: 10px; margin-left:-10px;margin-right:-10px;margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:10px"> <div style="min-height:250px;" class="r89-mobile-rectangle-low ad-xs"></div> </div><div class="text-center visible-sm-block" style=" padding-bottom: 10px; margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:10px"> <div style="min-height:250px;" class="r89-mobile-rectangle-low ad-sm"></div> </div><div class="text-center visible-lg-block"> <div class="megaabajoforos ad-lg" style="min-height:90px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 20px;"></div> </div><div class="text-center visible-md-block"> <div class="megaabajoforos ad-md" style="min-height:90px; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 20px;"></div> </div> <div class="row jumpbox"> <div class="col-xs-24 col-md-12"> <a href="foro_xbox-360-juegos_138"><i class="fa fa-fw fa-chevron-left"></i>Volver a <b>Juegos</b></a> </div> </div> <div id="footer-bar"> <a href="#header"> <i class="fa fa-fw fa-chevron-up"></i> Subir </a> </div> </div> <div class="container-fluid" id="footer"> <div class="limit-width" style="margin: 0 auto"> <div class="row"> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-12"><a href="/" id="footer-logo"></a></div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-12 text-right"> </div> </div> <hr> <div class="row"> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-12" id="footer-info"> <a href="/ucp.php?mode=fullterms" rel="nofollow">Términos y condiciones</a> | <a class="change-consent" onclick="window.__tcfapi('displayConsentUi', 2, function() {} );" title="Modificar consentimiento sobre el tratamiento de datos personales">GDPR</a> | <a href="/wiki/ElOtroLado:Publicidad" rel="nofollow">Publicidad</a> </div> <div class="col-xs-24 col-sm-12 text-right" id="footer-copyright"> ©1999-2025 <a href="/wiki/ElOtroLado:Licencia_de_contenidos" rel="nofollow">Algunos derechos reservados</a> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id="bs-canaries"> <div class="visible-xs-block"></div> <div class="visible-sm-block"></div> <div class="visible-md-block"></div> <div class="visible-lg-block"></div> </div> <script> var TIMEZONE = 0.00;var CRUMBS = 'Xbox 360 › Juegos › ';var TOPIC_TITLE = 'Enemy Territory: Quake Wars'; var RT=1762355024; var ABC_AH='1c710514'; var slots = [], dfps = document.getElementsByClassName('dfp-queue'); for(var i = 0; i < dfps.length; i++) { var e = dfps[i]; if(e.offsetWidth > 0 && e.offsetHeight > 0) { var p = e.getAttribute('data-path'), n = 'dfp_' + p.split('/')[2]; slots.push({ path: p, size: [e.offsetWidth, e.offsetHeight], id: n }); e.setAttribute('id', n); } } if(slots.length) { googletag.cmd.push( (function() { return function() { for(var i in slots) { googletag.defineSlot(slots[i].path, slots[i].size, slots[i].id).addService(googletag.pubads()); } googletag.pubads().enableSingleRequest(); googletag.enableServices(); for(var i in slots) { googletag.display(slots[i].id); } } })() ); } if (eolTtb != null) { ga('send', 'timing', 'JS', 'TTB', Math.round(performance.now() - 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